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Bethnal Green 5:13 Fri Oct 28
Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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After the trouble at West Ham against Chelsea... don't blame the stadium, blame the hooligan fans
Notion events at West Ham can be blamed on the stadium is preposterous
People who fight, people who destroy, people who taunt are the problem
They are thugs besmirching a great chance of progress for West Ham
People acting that way are scaring off the next generation of supporters
The Olympic stadium is not ideal but the alternative would be even worse
Stadiums do not riot. Stadiums do not smash seats. Stadiums do not throw bottles and coins. Stadiums do not shout abuse or punch you on the nose. Stadiums just stand there, unseeing, unfeeling. So let us turn from the preposterous notion that recent events at West Ham are the work of an unsatisfactory new arena.
People. That is the problem here. People who fight, people who destroy, people who taunt and abuse; uncivilised, violent, horrible people. That is what West Ham must be rid of, not the new stadium.
There will always be teething problems when a football club leaves home. Unfamiliar surrounds feel alien. Routes and haunts are altered, maybe the company too. Those lads you always used to have laugh with in the row behind might be in another part of the ground now. The new lot are all right but it’s not the same.
People who fight, taunt and abuse are what West Ham must get rid of, not the new stadium
Maybe you liked the old view, the old atmosphere, all supporters have the tendency to wallow in nostalgia, even at reborn clubs like Manchester City. Sport loves its traditions and rituals after all.
None of this, however, explains or justifies what happened at the London Stadium on Wednesday night. This was nothing to do with the approval rating for West Ham’s new home. These were the actions of opportunist thugs.
There is, it must be said, a right load of old twaddle talked about West Ham. The club that puts tradition, passion and trying to play the beautiful game ahead of success. The club that has lost touch with its fanbase by trying to build, rebrand and improve. Rubbish.
No team draws 54,000 to a Europa League second-round qualifier against NK Domzale of Slovenia if the punters don’t care what the score is or where the club is going. Nobody thought West Ham would fill this new ground. They did because last season was a good one. People were optimistic about the future. They had Dimitri Payet. Kept him, too. Maybe all this talk of being a force in Europe wasn’t just fantasy after all.
West Ham and Chelsea fans clash at EFL Cup tie in London Stadium
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It is rubbish to suggest West Ham have lost touch with their fanbase with the move
My brother’s got five season tickets over at the new place. They’re not cheap. So dead right he wants to see this team win something. He is not one to fantasise airily about the good old days of losing 2-1 at home to Bristol City (February 11 1978, we were there) or mythologise the past as if there was some great cultural experience in eating monkey nuts on the North Bank, or hearing monkey chants from the Chicken Run, before someone used your trouser leg as his personal water closet.
The London Stadium is not ideal, because compromises with an athletics legacy had to be made, but most fans know why the club took the leap.
The alternative was not to remain the old West Ham, but to end up the new Fulham, or Queens Park Rangers. The poor relations, the never-will-bes.
One look at the huge structure rising on Tottenham High Road, the ambitious plans for Stamford Bridge or the money machine that is the Emirates Stadium, told of West Ham’s future. They took this opportunity or they signed up for life in the shadows.
Chelsea supporter Steve Cutting showing his bloodied head during the game on Wednesday
West Ham are not even Sunderland or Newcastle. They do not have a city to themselves. Once Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea had their 60,000 capacity cathedrals in place, what would be left for West Ham?
Oh, that’s right — the tradition, the history, the passion, the myth, the pie and eels. Except that wasn’t West Ham at all, some poxy little also-ran. West Ham had a go. West Ham got to Wembley. At least they used to.
In 1964, the year I was born. Then in 1975, when I was 10. And in 1980, beating Arsenal. And in 1981, losing to Liverpool. In 1976 there was an appearance in the European Cup-winners’ Cup final, a competition the club had won 11 years earlier.
So that’s the team I grew up following, not some bunch of Cockney caricatures happy to have a sing-song, a plate of mash and liquor and their arses handed to them by Chelsea.
West Ham are the club that won the FA Cup in 1980 against Arsenal, not some poxy little also-ran
West Ham are the club that won the FA Cup in 1980 against Arsenal, not some poxy also-ran
Sam Allardyce lost the West Ham fans due to a lack of ambition, not due to dull football
Sam Allardyce lost the West Ham fans due to a lack of ambition, not due to dull football
Here’s another myth. Sam Allardyce didn’t lose the West Ham public simply because he played dull football. He lost them because he lacked ambition.
Everyone remembers that Allardyce was booed despite beating Hull at home. But that was on March 26, 2014. On January 5, 2014, almost three months earlier, Allardyce put a reserve team out in the FA Cup against second-tier Nottingham Forest and lost 5-0. That was when the rot set in.
So this is not a club whose supporters are mystified by aspiration. There is still a wonderful football culture among the majority at the London Stadium, involving turning up and cheering the team.
Some fans are thugs besmirching the best chance West Ham have had for advancement
The mistake is to paint the Neanderthals causing havoc near the Chelsea end — and there were plenty in the away section, too, but that’s not the point, because it is happening at West Ham almost weekly now — as representative of some noble tradition, fighting for a dying, disenfranchised football culture.
No, they are thugs besmirching one of the greatest chances for advancement a football club has had.
They are scaring off the next generation and risk dragging their fellow supporters down, limiting West Ham’s ambition, and undermining their best efforts.
And the biggest lie is that it was all somehow inevitable. Because stadiums don’t kill football; hooligans do.
A TIMELINE OF THE TROUBLES AT LONDON STADIUM
AUGUST 4
Restricted-view seating provides a problem and some fans cannot find their allocated seats at the first competitive game at the London Stadium between West Ham and NK Domzale.
AUGUST 21
Some fans have to sit on bare concrete as 56 season-ticket holders are left without seats in the West Stand.
AUGUST 25
A man is arrested on suspicion of ABH after West Ham fans fight among themselves at the 1-0 defeat by Astra Giurgiu in a Europa League qualifier.
SEPTEMBER 10
The club warns life bans will be given to supporters involved in crowd trouble. Ten are ejected from the stadium after clashes with Watford fans. Stewards struggle to keep them segregated as the Hammers lose 4-2.
SEPTEMBER 13
Metropolitan Police say additional policing measures cannot yet be implemented inside the ground because of the lack of the Airwave radio system, which is used by the emergency services, at the £700million venue.
OCTOBER 1
Four people are arrested after yet more crowd disturbance, when West Ham draw 1-1 with Middlesbrough.
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Replies - In Chronological Order ( Show Newest Messages First)
B6NY B
5:32 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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DM banned at work, brief?
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Private Dancer
6:07 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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''The alternative was not to remain the old West Ham, but to end up the new Fulham, or Queens Park Rangers. The poor relations, the never-will-bes''
iI like Samuel, but this is bollocks. We would not have been a QPR or a Fulham had we stayed at the Boleyn, particuarly had we extended it.
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J.Riddle
6:08 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Can't be arsed to read all that
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Sven Roeder
6:14 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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'Chelsea supporter Steve CUTTING showing his bloodied head'
SELF INFLICTED, SHIRLEY?
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One McAvennieeeeee
6:27 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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He's proper smug. Never liked anything he's had to say, WHU or not.
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peroni
6:30 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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I usually like him and think he's the best out there. He's wrong here though so I shall forever now think he's a cunt.
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geoffpikey
6:40 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Makes some good points. If he's a cunt just cos everyone doesn't agree 100% then EVERYONE on WHO is an ubercunt. Oh...
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les marteaux
8:13 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Those who threw bottles at the Manure coach - proper West Ham
People fighting each other in first few games - proper West Ham innit.
Thugs throwing missiles at rent boy fans - Proper West Ham.
Fuck them, they are giving ammunition to our enemies like Levy, the media and all the other London clubs. These people are willing us to fail and these proper West Ham CUNTS are giving them all they want to throw at us.
Most fans who go there want fuck all to do with them. Ban the cunts.
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kirok1
8:32 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Agree with most of it.
I don't think the OS is perfect but then, neither was the Boleyn, unless you've got rose tinted specs.
There are issues, I'll grant that. But the biggest problems are a bunch of so called fans who think wrecking the joint and acting likes fuckwits is what it takes to enjoy a match.
Chelsea fans are getting off scott free because we are an easy media target, yet we'd rather harp on about the good old days than admit that MS is bang on about fading if we'd stayed at the Boleyn.
It'll be a while before we can call it home but more bums on seats equals more revenue equals more chance of holding onto our best players and stepping up against the Champions League mob. I enjoyed beating some of 'em last year. We've got a better chance of doing it if we keep moving on up.
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chim chim cha boo
8:39 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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I saw a few plastic bottles of water thrown, some coins and half of one plastic seat. Everything thrown in one direction seemed to get thrown back in the other direction. NOBODY WAS SERIOUSLY HURT in the stadium.
Two lots of fans simply squared-up and there was a load of pointing going on.
Do you really want to ban people for life for fucking pointing and swearing? It's being treated like it was WW3 by the media and some people are getting a bit overexcited.
The real undercurrent seems to be 'we the tax-payers paid for that stadium and some naughty boys are intimidating us and it's not fair'.
For every person put off going by what happened on Wednesday night there will be another who really wants to go to the stadium because of what happened on Wednesday night.
It was a fantastic night under the lights, we intimidated a few posh new chelsea fans and played them off the park. I'm starting to think of the Olympic stadium as our home ground and that is a great feeling.
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,
8:49 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Chim, I have read that some fans might be chucked out for this season.
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Crassus
9:00 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Had just about enough of the mass hysteria through the media, so cant be arsed to read another condemnatory tome from self rightious journos who were only recently waxing lyrically about the delights of the oppressive Upton Park atmosphere and its faithful.
Not one comment about the Chelsea fans, and as no doubt said, in truth it was a few blokes throwing water bottles and a seat back and forth. Never saw a single puch thrown in the ground, a bit of surging and a lot of posturing.
7 that is a whole SEVEN, were nicked and 3, yep THREE of whom charged after this momentous riot. One must have been the pissed lemon who wandered out on the tarp'.
So no big deal really is it?
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chim chim cha boo
9:06 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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I can kind of see why you'd ban someone for throwing coins but pointing, singing and swearing? Not for me.
The way I saw it was there was enough room in the stands, even the away stands, to move out of the way of the silliness and plenty did exactly that.
All the fans who wanted to be a part of it moved towards the stewards, us AND them, and it was nothing much more than posturing from then on. Even if you're pissed up you know it's madness to do much more than that in a fully CCTVed up stadium.
So some kids got scared? The stories they can tell at school will make up for that. 'Character building' my old man used to say, and he was right. If you don't want your child to be scared at football you really should think twice about taking them to West Ham's first London derby against a team EVERYONE hates.
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Alex Bunbury
9:34 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Good article. Most I agree with some of it I don't.
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Lertie Button
9:36 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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In the pictures I've seen in the papers it's clear the West Ham er supporters getting involved in the bother are coked out their heads.
Suppose you had to be there but in all honesty it doesn't make great viewing, a bunch of middle aged men who should know better
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Crassus
9:46 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Times journo summed it up perfectly
To paraphrase - broadly a lot about nothing with a few blokes of a certain age, who should know better, playing up by largely pointing and adopting a stance of do you want some, a few did, so chucked coins and plastic bottles to re-live their youth
Made me smile and in truth, was spot on when considering in ground events
Back in the day that would have really gone off and the thin line of stewards would have lasted shorter than a good fart
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Hayzer
9:54 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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You can tell all that from a photograph.... Fck me its CSI Stratford
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Queens Fish Bar
10:31 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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chim chim cha boo 8:39 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
Spot on. It was a great night. I was in 148, took an old mate who is Chelsea and he was impressed. With the ground, atmosphere and the way we played them off the park.
Knicker wetting by the press. 7 arrests hardly a riot.
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HairyHammer
10:38 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .
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Yes throwing coins and tearing seats swearing shouting at opposition fans are all pathetic and should not happen even if it is done by a tiny minority of fans as was done against Chelsea on Wednesday night , but one thing is very obvious and I will write it in capitals for everyone to understand .
THE MEDIA DO NOT LIKE WEST HAM, MAYBE EVEN HATE IS NOT A BIG WORD TO USE.
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